Pope’s Farewell at Sunday’s Angelus; Changes Conclave’s Rules for Election of New Pope

by Steve Ray on February 24, 2013

He explains his continuing service to the Church:

Dear brothers and sisters, I hear this Word of God addressed to me in a special way during this moment of my life. Thank you!

The Lord is calling me to “scale the mountain,” to dedicate myself still more to prayer and to meditation. But this does not mean abandoning the Church – on the contrary, if God asks this of me, it is to serve the Church with the same dedication and the same love with which I have tried to do so hitherto, but in a way that is more adapted to my age and my strength.

Let us invoke the intercession of the Virgin Mary: may she help us always to follow the Lord Jesus in prayer and in active charity.

**************
AP News – Pope changes conclave rules, says cardinals can move up date of vote if all cardinals in Rome.

{ 18 comments… read them below or add one }

john February 26, 2013 at 7:36 AM

I beleive the pope has it wrong:

Let us invoke the intercession of the Virgin Mary:

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

as usual the Catholic’s are practicing the traditions of men….

STEVE RAY HERE: It is the Protest-ant who follows the traditions of men. Invoking 1 Tim 2:5 to say we should only ask for Jesus’ intercession shows how unbiblical they are! In the same chapter Paul tells us to pray for others and to ask them to pray for us.

As soon as we ask someone else to pray for us we have basically put them in a position of mediatorship, being a mediator between us and God. To deny that others can pray for us is to be unbiblical and to follow the traditions of men.

Catholics do not believe that those who died are getting done. Rather, they are in the presence of God and can pray for us even better than people down here can pray for us.

John, stop parroting the gibberish of your mentors. Read the Bible, study church history and try and get it right.

John Chagas February 26, 2013 at 11:16 AM

Yes its only thru’ Jesus – John 14:6. Jesus never said to go his mother. Catholics practice the tradition of men – the same Pharisaical attitude Jesus rebuked in Mark 7:8 . Jesus “the Son of God” sums it clearly in Mark 12:30-31. Worship the creator not the created beings. Jesus created Mary. Essentially when it comes to obedience, Catholics disobey Jesus and look to the priests/popes i.e. Traditions of man – the same Pharisaical attitude Jesus rebuked in Mark 7:8 . There is no proof or guarantee that people e.g. Mary or the saints who have passed away from their earthly life’s can intercede for us because of 2 Corinthians 11:14. Yes we can certainly ask people who are alive in this earth to interecede for us. In Matthew 6:9-13 Jesus sums it clearly again how we must pray. Only Jesus commands must be obeyed.

De Maria February 26, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Hi John,

The faith of Christ is a different dispensation. The Jews did not walk with the Saints. Therefore, they could not talk to them. Whereas, we do walk with them. Why then, would we be forbidden to talk to them?

Hebrews 12:18-24
King James Version (KJV)
18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: 20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

De Maria February 26, 2013 at 4:25 PM

John Chagas February 26, 2013 at 11:16 AM
Yes its only thru’ Jesus – John 14:6.

John 14:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

We get to the Father by Jesus. By whom do we get to Jesus?

By Mary. For Mary brought Jesus into the world:
Matthew 1:16
And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

By preachers of the Gospel:
Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

So, in order to get to Jesus, we go through Mary and the Church. There is no other way.

Jesus never said to go his mother.

1. Not directly. But He, Himself, came through Mary. And He is our example.
2. And Scripture tells us that all who have the testimony of Christ and keep the Commandments of the Father are the seed of Mary. Therefore, we are all spiritual children of Mary. (Rev 12:17).

[quote]Catholics practice the tradition of men –[/quote]

It is Protestants who do so. Look for instance at the false gospel of Sola Scriptura. Where is that in Scripture?

Scripture says:
Hold the Traditions-2 Thess 2:15
Obey the priests-Heb 13:17
Obey the Church-Matt 18:17

But never does it say-Hold only Scripture alone. Or if it does, provide the chapter and verse. Let us examine it together.

the same Pharisaical attitude Jesus rebuked in Mark 7:8
Mark 7:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Again, this is what Protestants do. As I have shown above, they deny the Word of God and follow the tradition of men known as Sola Scriptura. And that gives them license to set aside the all of Scripture.

Jesus “the Son of God” sums it clearly in Mark 12:30-31.

Mark 12:30-31
King James Version (KJV)
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

This the Church has ever taught.

Worship the creator not the created beings.

We don’t. We praise Mary in accordance with Scripture (Luke 1:48).

Jesus created Mary.

And Mary gave birth to Jesus. A detail which is very important for our salvation.

Essentially when it comes to obedience, Catholics disobey Jesus and look to the priests/popes i.e. Traditions of man – the same Pharisaical attitude Jesus rebuked in Mark 7:8 .

On the contrary, Jesus commands that we obey our Church (Matt 18:17).
And Scripture commands that we obey the Priests (Heb 13:17).

There is no proof

We have the proof of Tradition and Scripture.

or guarantee that people e.g. Mary or the saints

Mary and the Saints are members of the body of Christ.

who have passed away from their earthly life’s can intercede for us because of 2 Corinthians 11:14.

You have no assurance because you don’t have an infallible Church teaching you the Wisdom of God (Eph 3:10). But we do. We don’t pray to Satan in any form. But we walk with the Saints of God on Mount Sion (Heb 12:21-24).

Whereas, Scripture shows that God expects us to pray to Mary. And does not discourage us from praying to the Saints (1 Timothy 2:1).

Yes we can certainly ask people who are alive in this earth to interecede for us. In Matthew 6:9-13 Jesus sums it clearly again how we must pray.

It is certainly a good pattern to use. We use the same pattern when we pray to God through the Saints. For Scripture also says:
Matthew 10:41
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

Only Jesus commands must be obeyed.

Jesus, Himself, commanded us to obey the Church (Matt 18:17). And Scripture tells us to obey our Pastors (Heb 13:17).

Sincerely,

De Maria

John Chagas February 27, 2013 at 1:46 PM

We get to the Father by Jesus. By whom do we get to Jesus?
By Mary. For Mary brought Jesus into the world:

That is your personal interpretation based on the man-made traditions of your RC church not supported by scripture, see Acts 4:12, 1 Timothy 2:5, Rev 22:13. In fact Catholics make a mockery of Mary by being disobedient to her command in John 2:5. Being a created being, there has to be a fine line defined as to the extent that “honor” Mary and Saints must be given. Jesus is God. To suggest something else is sheer mockery. Catholics have crossed this fine line turning honor to extreme worship influenced by personal sentiments and sheer fanaticism – The enemies of the cross. The scripture is a standard rule of faith for ascertaining truth whether man-made teaching measure up. And certainly your personal cooked up interpretation coming from man-made traditions of the RC Church have contradictory teachings from scripture that are poles apart.

I suppose this is not surprising when we consider how the statue of the Virgin Mary with the Child in her arms is constantly before the bodily eye, and the mind’s eye, of the Catholic worshipper. The impression created is that of the dominating, adult figure of Mary, with a subordinate place for Christ as the weak and helpless infant. Thus we see how images can be misleading, and can deny the truth of Scripture, (the prophets called them ‘lying images’), so that we need to take seriously the warnings of the Bible against their subtle and insidious tendency to draw the mind away from God. But we must be clear about the direction of this tendency and realistic about what lies behind it. It stands biblical doctrine on its head, and, while professing innocence of idolatry, worships the creature more than the Creator.

You have no assurance because you don’t have an infallible Church teaching you the Wisdom of God

What I see you, unlike all Catholics, submit to “blind-obedience” type of faith. Do you know what is contained in the common deposit of faith? Is there assurance of Salvation? How can a group of fallible men elect a fallible man as their leader who then becomes infallible through the election?

I hail from India, as you might be aware that the Hindu religion models on the same principles of the Catholic Religion. The Hindus have so called sacred books called the Bhagvad Gita, Ramayana and Mahabarata, but these are only a collection of mythological stories. However they have some obscured truths in something known as the Vedic scriptures allegedly written some 2000 years. India being a caste-divided society, only the Brahmin priestly-upperclass are “authorized” to interpret the Vedic scriptures. And certainly there is the scenario of these pharisee type priestly class suppressing the truths contained in those vedic scriptures. If you ask the average (not the priestly-class) hindu, he is totally in the “dark”.

So how can you have 100% assurance in the claim you say that you have an infallible church?. What I see that Carholics are flying in a plane that has lost its navigation system – i.e. flying blindly.

De Maria February 28, 2013 at 10:13 AM

John Chagas February 27, 2013 at 1:46 PM
We get to the Father by Jesus. By whom do we get to Jesus?
By Mary. For Mary brought Jesus into the world:

That is your personal interpretation based on the man-made traditions of your RC church

No John. That is the Teaching of the Church based upon the Testimony of Jesus Christ. Remember, Jesus did not write even one letter of Scripture. Jesus instituted the Church, appointed the Leaders of the Church and then ordered that Church to teach His Testimony to the world.

The Church then wrote the New Testament.

Protestants, like yourself, do not recognize the Testimony of Jesus Christ because you rejected it and replaced it with your man made traditions.

For instance, when Scripture says:
Revelation 12:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You reject the idea that this Woman is the Virgin Mary because you reject the Testimony of Jesus Christ. His Testimony, His Gospel, tells the world that Mary is the Mother of the Messiah. This Woman is clearly described as the Mother of the Messiah. And Rev 12:17 tells you that she is also the Mother of all who keep God’s commandments and hold the Testimony of Her Son. But you reject that Teaching because you prefer your man made doctrine.

not supported by scripture, see Acts 4:12, 1 Timothy 2:5, Rev 22:13.

Let’s examine these John. Because they don’t say what you claim they say.

Acts 4:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Question: If this is saying that only Jesus saves, why does the Apostle say? Does Scripture contradict itself?
1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Timothy 2:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Question: If this is saying that no one may assist Jesus in the salvation of souls, why does Scripture also say:

James 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Revelation 22:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

If that is saying that only God may save souls, why does Scripture also say?
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

Besides, this verse is part of an entire idea which demolishes the pillar of your religion, Sola Fide:
Revelation 22:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

In other words, in order to be saved, one must keep the Commandments. Faith alone is dead.

In fact Catholics make a mockery of Mary by being disobedient to her command in John 2:5.

John 2:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

On the contrary John, we obey it to the nth degree. We not only do what He says but everything He does. He loved Mary and took her as His mother. So do we:
John 19:26-27
King James Version (KJV)
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

We consider ourselve disciples beloved unto Christ. And in obedience to His command, we have taken her as our mother.

Being a created being, there has to be a fine line defined as to the extent that “honor” Mary and Saints must be given. Jesus is God. To suggest something else is sheer mockery.

No one has ever suggested anything else except Protestants. Protestants will honor their father and mother and their husbands and wives, but deny this honor to the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Catholics have crossed this fine line turning honor to extreme worship influenced by personal sentiments and sheer fanaticism – The enemies of the cross.

On the contrary, you are the enemies of the Cross. Christ died on the Cross giving us an example to follow:
1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

But Protestants say, you can’t save anyone by your suffering, least of all yourself. Thus directly contradicting Scripture in many places:
Colossians 1:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

The scripture is a standard rule of faith for ascertaining truth whether man-made teaching measure up.

I’m glad you said that. Because if that were true, then that rule would have to be in Scripture. But, guess what, it isn’t. So, if you claim that it is, provide the chapter and verse. And then explain how it can mean what you say when Scripture says:
Matthew 18:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Hebrews 13:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

2 Timothy 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Because it sounds as though the rules of faith for Christians are the Church, Traditions and also Scripture. But not Scripture alone.

And certainly your personal cooked up interpretation coming from man-made traditions of the RC Church have contradictory teachings from scripture that are poles apart.

Show me. I guarantee you that any Protestant tradition which contradicts the Catholic Church, also contradicts Scripture.

I suppose this is not surprising when we consider how the statue of the Virgin Mary with the Child in her arms is constantly before the bodily eye, and the mind’s eye, of the Catholic worshipper.

Beautiful spiritual lessons is therein taught. But Protestants don’t care that the Doctrines of Jesus Christ are spiritually discerned. In fact, they spurn spirituality:
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

First lesson:
Love Christ as Mary loved Him. – The love of a mother for her son is unequaled in humanity. Only God can love anyone more. But Mary loved God with a mother’s heart. Therefore she loved God more than any man is capable of loving God.

Next lesson:
Carry Jesus Christ with you where ever you go and give Him to the world. – Mary carried Christ in her womb and then in her arms. She cherished Him and loved Him and then gave Him to the world.

Next lesson:
Always carry Christ next to your heart. – in every image of the Mother of God, she carries Christ next to her heart.

The impression created is that of the dominating, adult figure of Mary, with a subordinate place for Christ as the weak and helpless infant.

That interpretation says more about you then it does about us. Because, I for one, never dreamed that anyone could interpret those images as you just did. As for me, I am a father of four. And when my first child was born, I turned my world upside down for her. Before she was born, I was a ne’er do well atheist living to please only myself.

But after my child was conceived, God began to pour His grace into me such that you could not recognize the man I was after her birth in comparison to the man I was before her conception.

Your interpretation says to me that you don’t understand these words, “God is love.” And everywhere that love exists, God is there in a powerful way.
1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Thus we see how images can be misleading, and can deny the truth of Scripture, (the prophets called them ‘lying images’), so that we need to take seriously the warnings of the Bible against their subtle and insidious tendency to draw the mind away from God.

That would be the case of one who does know the difference between a man made image and God. But we do. Therefore, we don’t worship the pictures in our wallets. We carry them around because they remind us of the ones we love. The same way that statues of the Saints remind us of those who came before us in the faith. And the same way that statues of Jesus Christ remind us of Christ. The same way that images of the Cross remind us of His passion and death.

But we must be clear about the direction of this tendency and realistic about what lies behind it. It stands biblical doctrine on its head, and, while professing innocence of idolatry, worships the creature more than the Creator.

That is your opinion. But God instructed Moses to make images of the cherubim to go over the Mercy Seat.
Exodus 25:18
And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

and He instructed him to make an image of a serpent to be raised on a pole:
Numbers 21:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. 10 And the children of Israel set forward, and pitched in Oboth.

You have no assurance because you don’t have an infallible Church teaching you the Wisdom of God

Scripture says that we do. That is another Teaching which you reject:
Ephesians 3:10
King James Version (KJV)
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

What I see you, unlike all Catholics, submit to “blind-obedience” type of faith.

This is what Jesus Christ says about the blind obedience type of faith:
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

2 Corinthians 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Do you know what is contained in the common deposit of faith?

Yes.

Is there assurance of Salvation?

Yes. But not absolute assurance. For we hope in the glory of God:
Romans 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

How can a group of fallible men elect a fallible man as their leader who then becomes infallible through the election?

By the grace of God. How did that same group write the Scriptures without error? By the grace of God.

I hail from India, as you might be aware that the Hindu religion models on the same principles of the Catholic Religion.

I disagree. I do not hail from India. But I have studied enough of the Hindu faith to reject it utterly.

The Hindus have so called sacred books called the Bhagvad Gita, Ramayana and Mahabarata, but these are only a collection of mythological stories. However they have some obscured truths in something known as the Vedic scriptures allegedly written some 2000 years. India being a caste-divided society, only the Brahmin priestly-upperclass are “authorized” to interpret the Vedic scriptures. And certainly there is the scenario of these pharisee type priestly class suppressing the truths contained in those vedic scriptures. If you ask the average (not the priestly-class) hindu, he is totally in the “dark”.

But the average Catholic walks upon Mount Sion. And he knows this. That is why he communicates with the Saints:
Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

So how can you have 100% assurance in the claim you say that you have an infallible church?

1. For one, the Scripture tells us.

2. For another, I can find the explanation for all Catholic doctrines in Scripture, implied or explicit.

3. For a third, the Church tells us through the Magisterial Teachings and through the witness of the Fathers of the Church.

What I see that Carholics are flying in a plane that has lost its navigation system – i.e. flying blindly.

That is because you have lost faith in Christ. We are not even on auto pilot. We are flying by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the course is set directly for Heaven.

- See more at: http://www.catholic-convert.com/2013/02/24/popes-farewell-at-sundays-angelus/#sthash.nTo9yKwy.dpuf

Ok.

John Chagas March 1, 2013 at 1:09 PM

De Maria .. your interpretations are purely based on humanism. You walk in the flesh and your mind is carnal – which is an enemy of God.

The RC Church teaches that “tradition” and “scripture” must are to be obeyed in equal reverence. This is best a doctrine that is oxymoron. For one, tradition is “not inspited” word of God unlike scripture.

Like all earthly religions, I have simply drawn a parallel between the Catholic and Hindu religion. The Hindu upper priesdy Brahmin class have “exclusive” authority the Hindu vedic scriptures. Similarly the Catholic religion has the “Magisterium headed by the Pope” -who daim exclusivity or sole authority over scripture interpretation which is kept in the “Common deposit of faith”. How sure their interpretation is infallible? They can withhold anything the)- wish from the lay Catholic faithful – majority of whom submit to blind obedience. Ditto for the lower caste Hindus Catholicism, Mary worship is without a shadow of doubt become an “extreme cult worship”. One cannot blame the lay faithful catholic who walk in darkness, because die Catholic hierarchy has tiled to”curb” the sentiments which was let to go out of control. So much for die infallible church you claim.

No., i see is that you are the natural man for spiritual things of God are foolishness to you. Catholic spirituality/mysticism is simply at best heavily borrowed from eastern spirituality/eastern religions. That is why catholic clergy have no problems “fornicating” with rituals of other religions. This is against what the TEN COMMANDMENTS teach. Below i give a small snippet to support my claim:

MEETING IN GOD EXPERIENCE, Rudolf V. D’Souza OCD; Published by Dhyanavana Publications – Bangalore 2010, pp. 190; is a must read book during these years of preparation for the Birth Centenary of St. Teresa of Avila – 2015. This book deals with the comparative from the Gujarat Sahitya Prakash – Anand (Gujarat) by Jesuits. The book had a great success and has already gone into two prints. The book makes a pleasant reading and written in very scholarly and simple language. This volume is useful for all those who intend to get a comparative. Source: http://www.carmelifekgprovince.in/homily.htm.

And .. you say you reject die Hindu faith utterly .. then how come die RC Church does not support your views but instead “fornicates’ with experiences of other religions? Isn’t 1 Corinthians 10:21 pretty dear?

The same way that images of die Cross remind us of His passion and death
-Did you know that die cross reminds us also that God did not spare his only begotten Son, his wradl being satisfied by die blood of Christ for die propitiation of sins of die whole and die only sacrifice acceptable to God? Did you know die cross most “importandy” carried all our sinfiil shame which was nailed to die cross. What’s die point by only getting reminded of His passion and death? Its only lip service you make such statements. Did you know even Jesus forgave Mary’s sin?

I don’t believe that “most protestants” or non-Catholics are opposed to honoring the mother of Christ. It is the type and degree of honour that is the sticking point such as:

1) Takes away from Jesus
2) Runs dangerously close or crosses the line from veneration to worship etc.

Also I think that the Marion Dogmas are troublesome to non-catholics who do not see sufficient biblical evidence for them. Thus they cannot understand how or why the RC Church is justified in making such beliefs “required” through dogmatic declarations rather than leaving the faithful free to accept them or not. Within the Vatican surely there exists a group of sinful and hateful people who hearts are “blackened” by a seducing female spirit – the spirit of Anti-Christ, hell bent in drawing Catholics away from cross – as Jesus said – “they will hate you because of me” – the real enemies of the cross.

That said, most people I have spoken with have no problem “honoring” Mary as the mother of the savior, the blessed instrument of God, and a great example of submission and obedience in faith and trust to God’s Will. All of these are things that we honor her for too.

Where they draw the line tends to be in other matters which are, in some/many cases, broader than just “Marion” veneration. For instance, some protestants do not hold with prayer to the saints – such would naturally include prayers to Mary. Likewise, those who hold to a “soul sleep” concept would believe that Mary, like the other saints is not in heaven but in the grave awaiting the second coming.

There are many issues involved and they can be quite interrelated. I have read some writings of saints that make me cringe. The writing is so “Mary” focused that it really DOES sound and feel like “Mary worship”. I know that this is not their intent, but likewise I know that such writing, such promotion etc will be just as troubling to many non-catholics.

For myself, I am often reminded of the last words of Mary the mother of Jesus recorded in the Bible. “Do whatever he [Jesus] tells you to do“. I then take this as the best and greatest instruction from Mary the mother of Jesus, who I love very much. I honor her by doing what Jesus tells me to do as recorded in scripture.

John Chagas March 1, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Sorry… my previous post is messed up.

De Maria .. your interpretations are purely based on humanism. You walk in the flesh and your mind is carnal – which is an enemy of God.

The RC Church teaches that “tradition” and “scripture” must are to be obeyed in equal reverence. This is best a doctrine that is oxymoron. For one, tradition is “not inspited” word of God unlike scripture.

Like all earthly religions, I have simply drawn a parallel between the Catholic and Hindu religion. The Hindu upper priestly Brahmin class have “exclusive” authority interpreting the Hindu vedic scriptures. Similarly the Catholic religion has the “Magisterium headed by the Pope” who daim exclusivity or sole authority over scripture interpretation which is kept in the “Common deposit of faith”. How sure is their interpretation is infallible? They can withhold anything they wish from the lay Catholic faithful – majority of whom submit to blind obedience. Ditto for the lower caste Hindus who are kept in spiritual darkness by the upper caste Brahmin priestly class. All earthly religions teach you how to be good, to do moral values, believe in their leaders teachings. Even Roman Catholicism does not teach true salvation. It is a religion submerged in rituals and traditions. In Catholicism, Mary worship is without a shadow of doubt become an “extreme cult worship”. One cannot blame the lay faithful catholic who walk in darkness, because the Catholic hierarchy has failed to”curb” the people’s sentiments which was let to go out of control. So much for the infallible church you claim.

No., i see is that you are the natural man for spiritual things of God are foolishness to you. Catholic spirituality/mysticism is simply at best heavily borrowed from eastern spirituality/eastern religions. That is why catholic clergy have no problems “fornicating” with rituals of other religions. This is against what the TEN COMMANDMENTS teach. Below i give a small snippet to support my claim:

MEETING IN GOD EXPERIENCE, Rudolf V. D’Souza OCD; Rudolf V. D’Souza OCD; Published by Dhyanavana Publications – Bangalore 2010, pp. 190; is a must read book during these years of preparation for the Birth Centenary of St. Teresa of Avila – 2015. This book deals with the comparative religious experience between the writings on prayer by St. Teresa of Avila and the Bhagavad Gita religious experience. The book is a re-print from the Gujarat Sahitya Prakash – Anand (Gujarat) by Jesuits. The book had a great success and has already gone into two prints. The book makes a pleasant reading and written in very scholarly and simple language. This volume is useful for all those who intend to get a comparative religious experience of two world religions and also recommended to be used in formation houses and seminaries of Theological formation. Source: http://www.carmelifekgprovince.in/homily.htm.

And .. you say you reject die Hindu faith utterly .. then how come die RC Church does not support your views but instead “fornicates’ with experiences of other religions? Isn’t 1 Corinthians 10:21 pretty dear?

The same way that images of die Cross remind us of His passion and death
-Did you know that die cross reminds us also that God did not spare his only begotten Son, his wrath being satisfied by the blood of Christ for the propitiation of sins of the whole and the only sacrifice acceptable to God – once for all? Did you know the cross most “importandy” carried all our sinful shame which was nailed to die cross?. What’s the point by only getting reminded of His passion and death? Its only lip service you make such statements. Did you know even Jesus forgave Mary’s sin?

I don’t believe that “most protestants” or non-Catholics are opposed to honoring the mother of Christ. It is the type and degree of honour that is the sticking point such as:

1) Takes away from Jesus
2) Runs dangerously close or crosses the line from veneration to worship etc.

Also I think that the Marion Dogmas are troublesome to non-catholics who do not see sufficient biblical evidence for them. Thus they cannot understand how or why the RC Church is justified in making such beliefs “required” through dogmatic declarations rather than leaving the faithful free to accept them or not. Within the Vatican surely there exists a group of sinful and hateful people who hearts are “blackened” by a seducing female spirit – the spirit of Anti-Christ, hell bent in drawing Catholics away from cross – as Jesus said – “they will hate you because of me” – the real enemies of the cross.

That said, most people I have spoken with have no problem “honoring” Mary as the mother of the savior, the blessed instrument of God, and a great example of submission and obedience in faith and trust to God’s Will. All of these are things that we honor her for too.

Where they draw the line tends to be in other matters which are, in some/many cases, broader than just “Marion” veneration. For instance, some protestants do not hold with prayer to the saints – such would naturally include prayers to Mary. Likewise, those who hold to a “soul sleep” concept would believe that Mary, like the other saints is not in heaven but in the grave awaiting the second coming.

There are many issues involved and they can be quite interrelated. I have read some writings of saints that make me cringe. The writing is so “Mary” focused that it really DOES sound and feel like “Mary worship”. I know that this is not their intent, but likewise I know that such writing, such promotion etc will be just as troubling to many non-catholics.

For myself, I am often reminded of the last words of Mary the mother of Jesus recorded in the Bible. “Do whatever he [Jesus] tells you to do“. I then take this as the best and greatest instruction from Mary the mother of Jesus, who I love very much. I honor her by doing what Jesus tells me to do as recorded in scripture.

De Maria March 1, 2013 at 7:57 PM

John Chagas March 1, 2013 at 1:21 PM
Sorry… my previous post is messed up.

No problem.

De Maria .. your interpretations are purely based on humanism. You walk in the flesh and your mind is carnal – which is an enemy of God.

God is my judge.

The RC Church teaches that “tradition” and “scripture” must are to be obeyed in equal reverence. This is best a doctrine that is oxymoron. For one, tradition is “not inspited” word of God unlike scripture.

That is not what Scripture says. Protestants misunderstand the term, “Scripture is inspired of God.” They seem to believe that Scripture dropped to earth from the mouth of God. But that is hardly what that statement means. To say that “Scripture is inspired of God” is a “manner of speaking”. It is short hand for, “God inspired holy men to write the Scriptures without error.”

Would you agree that the Scriptures did not come directly out of the mouth of God but that God inspired holy men to write them? I’m going to assume that you will say, “yes.” Because if you say, “no”, you are going against the clear teaching of Scripture:

2 Peter 1:19-21
King James Version (KJV)
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

First, God inspired men to teach His Word without error.
Then, God inspired those same men to write down His Word without error.

If you look at Acts 2, the episode of the Pentecost, you see the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the Teaching of the Apostles by word illustrated. You also see this illustrated in the Gospels. John 20:21-23 for instance.

Therefore, the Teaching of the Church is also inspired by God. Otherwise, the Scriptures would not call the Teaching of the Church the Word of God:
Hebrews 13:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Or the Wisdom of God:
Ephesians 3:10
King James Version (KJV)
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Like all earthly religions, I have simply drawn a parallel between the Catholic and Hindu religion.

Religions have many things in common. I can draw many parallels between Protestantism and Hinduism.

The Hindu upper priestly Brahmin class have “exclusive” authority interpreting the Hindu vedic scriptures.

Really? Do these Hindu submit to and obey one High Priest? And do all Hindu acknowledge this authority?

Who is the equivalent of the Pope in this religion? I have tried to find the equivalent of the Pope in the Hindu religion and everywhere I turned, I was told that there is no such thing. It is an amorphous society, much like the Protestants. Each sect vying for adherents.

Similarly the Catholic religion has the “Magisterium headed by the Pope”

Not at all. I can identify the Catholic Magisterium by name. It is comprised of the Catholic Bishops of the world. And the Magisterium gathers in Rome when called.

Who comprises the Hindu Magisterium and where do they gather?

Now compare to Protestantism. Compile a list of the Protestant Magisterium if you will. There is none there either. They, like the Hindu, fly blind. Making up their religion according to how each of them interprets their holy books.

who daim exclusivity or sole authority over scripture interpretation which is kept in the “Common deposit of faith”.

That is incorrect. Scripture tells us that the Church is infallible (1 Tim 3:15) and the Church does not forbid us interpreting Scripture. She merely warns us that our interpretations must not be in conflict with the Church because the Church is anointed by God as the infallible Teacher of His Word (Eph 3:10).

How sure is their interpretation is infallible?

Absolutely sure.

They can withhold anything they wish from the lay Catholic faithful –

But they don’t. The Church has given us many thousands of books which teach us our faith.

majority of whom submit to blind obedience.

You’re contradicting yourself. You said I was the only one who was blindly obedient to the Church in your last message.

Ditto for the lower caste Hindus who are kept in spiritual darkness by the upper caste Brahmin priestly class.

But the Catholic Church doesn’t do that. The Catholic Church has the largest education system in the world. And there is more information on the internet today about the Catholic Church than about any other religion in the world.

All earthly religions teach you how to be good, to do moral values, believe in their leaders teachings.

Not true. But I’ll admit that most do so.

Even Roman Catholicism does not teach true salvation.

Catholicism is the only Western religion that teaches true salvation. Judaism, Orthodox Christianity and other ancient Christian Churches do so also. But none of the Protestant sects do so.

The reason being that Protestants teach salvation by faith “alone”. A man made doctrine which contradicts the Word of God.
James 2:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Protestants may get into heaven insofar as they follow the most fundamental doctrine of the Judeo/Christian faith. Keep the Commandments.

It is a religion submerged in rituals and traditions.

Rituals and Traditions mandated by Christ.

In Catholicism, Mary worship is without a shadow of doubt become an “extreme cult worship”.

We don’t worship Mary. We love her and honor her as the Mother of Our Lord (Luke 1:43). We treat her as we see God the Father treating her in the Word of God.

One cannot blame the lay faithful catholic who walk in darkness, because the Catholic hierarchy has failed to”curb” the people’s sentiments which was let to go out of control. So much for the infallible church you claim.

The Catholic faithful walks by the light of Christ. It is the poor Protestants who have been misled and are following the errors of men. Errors which lead them to insult and despise the Holy Mother of Our Lord. Think what a heinous insult that is. How ungratefully Protestants behave. The Woman that brought our Lord and Savior into the world, and they her kick to the curb.

No., i see is that you are the natural man for spiritual things of God are foolishness to you.

On the contrary, if you understood the spiritual things of God, you would not be a Protestant.

Catholic spirituality/mysticism is simply at best heavily borrowed from eastern spirituality/eastern religions. That is why catholic clergy have no problems “fornicating” with rituals of other religions. This is against what the TEN COMMANDMENTS teach. Below i give a small snippet to support my claim:

“MEETING IN GOD EXPERIENCE, Rudolf V. D’Souza OCD; Rudolf V. D’Souza OCD; Published by Dhyanavana Publications – Bangalore 2010, pp. 190; is a must read book during these years of preparation for the Birth Centenary of St. Teresa of Avila – 2015. This book deals with the comparative religious experience between the writings on prayer by St. Teresa of Avila and the Bhagavad Gita religious experience. The book is a re-print from the Gujarat Sahitya Prakash – Anand (Gujarat) by Jesuits. The book had a great success and has already gone into two prints. The book makes a pleasant reading and written in very scholarly and simple language. This volume is useful for all those who intend to get a comparative religious experience of two world religions and also recommended to be used in formation houses and seminaries of Theological formation. Source: http://www.carmelifekgprovince.in/homily.htm.

And .. you say you reject die Hindu faith utterly .. then how come die RC Church does not support your views but instead “fornicates’ with experiences of other religions?

Fear clouds your judgment. Have you not read in Scripture:
1 Thessalonians 5:21
King James Version (KJV)
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

I reject the Hindu Gods, but if some Catholics and Theologians have found something good in the Hindu religion. Perhaps meditation techniques and the like, they have every right to teach about them.

Besides, this book is simply a comparison of two religions. It is not an endorsement of the Hindu faith as some sort of substitute. I’ve read many such comparisons in the past.

Isn’t 1 Corinthians 10:21 pretty dear?

First problem. That book is not from the Magisterium. But simply a certain group of Catholics making a particular study.
Second problem. You have not even proved that they recommend people become Hindus. Much less that they eat of any Hindu sacrifices.
Third problem. You have not understood the Teaching of St. Paul. For St. Paul also says:
1 Corinthians 10
King James Version (KJV)

27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof: 29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience? 30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? 31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

We are not forbidden to eat. We are forbidden to believe what they believe. But if you are weak of faith, don’t read the recommended book.

The same way that images of die Cross remind us of His passion and death
-Did you know that die cross reminds us also that God did not spare his only begotten Son, his wrath being satisfied by the blood of Christ for the propitiation of sins of the whole and the only sacrifice acceptable to God – once for all? Did you know the cross most “importandy” carried all our sinful shame which was nailed to die cross?. What’s the point by only getting reminded of His passion and death? Its only lip service you make such statements.

If you believed all that, you would not forsake the Assembly. You would partake of the Body and Blood of Our Lord which was sacrificed for you:
Hebrews 10:25-31
King James Version (KJV)
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

By rejecting the Eucharist, you have made Christ’s death upon the Cross, in vain for you.

Did you know even Jesus forgave Mary’s sin?

Mary did not sin. So there was no sin to forgive.

I don’t believe that “most protestants” or non-Catholics are opposed to honoring the mother of Christ. It is the type and degree of honour that is the sticking point such as:

1) Takes away from Jesus
2) Runs dangerously close or crosses the line from veneration to worship etc.

It is a very strange religion taught by you, wherein a Son does not rejoice when His Mother is honored.

Also I think that the Marion Dogmas are troublesome to non-catholics who do not see sufficient biblical evidence for them.

Because they are spiritually discerned.

Thus they cannot understand how or why the RC Church is justified in making such beliefs “required” through dogmatic declarations rather than leaving the faithful free to accept them or not.

It is because you have discarded the Traditions of Jesus Christ that you can’t recognize them when you read the Word of God in Scripture.

Within the Vatican surely there exists a group of sinful and hateful people who hearts are “blackened” by a seducing female spirit – the spirit of Anti-Christ, hell bent in drawing Catholics away from cross – as Jesus said – “they will hate you because of me” – the real enemies of the cross.

You are truly seduced by whichever demon is leading the Protestants away from Christ. If you were not, you would recognize that you are blaspheming that which is good by calling the Catholic Church evil.

That said, most people I have spoken with have no problem “honoring” Mary as the mother of the savior, the blessed instrument of God, and a great example of submission and obedience in faith and trust to God’s Will. All of these are things that we honor her for too.

I don’t believe it. I live in a Protestant nation. And I am surrounded by Protestants. And they are filled with hatred at the mention of Mary. They will throw parades for football players and war heroes, dead or alive. But mention anything to honor the Virgin Mary and they throw fits of rage.

Where they draw the line tends to be in other matters which are, in some/many cases, broader than just “Marion” veneration. For instance, some protestants do not hold with prayer to the saints – such would naturally include prayers to Mary. Likewise, those who hold to a “soul sleep” concept would believe that Mary, like the other saints is not in heaven but in the grave awaiting the second coming.

I’m not talking with them, but with you. And you seem to disagree with this doctrine as well. Whereas, we recognize the new dispensation of Christ, wherein we are already walking with the Saints upon Mt. Sion. And we also recognize that all who die in Christ, live. Therefore, there is no longer any hindrance to our communicating with the Saints who are members of the Body of Christ.

There are many issues involved and they can be quite interrelated. I have read some writings of saints that make me cringe. The writing is so “Mary” focused that it really DOES sound and feel like “Mary worship”. I know that this is not their intent, but likewise I know that such writing, such promotion etc will be just as troubling to many non-catholics.

I actually understand. When I first came to the Church and was only tasting of her milk, I read the “Glories of Mary” by St. Alphonsus Liguori. I was shocked and put the book down.

But after God poured his grace into me, I remembered the book and looked it up. And I was so impressed that I took on a part of St. Liguori’s name. In honor of St. Alphonsus Liguori and also of St. Louis de Montfort, I call myself “de Maria”. Because they also applied that name to themselves. St. Alphonsus Marie Liguori, St. Louis Marie de Montfort. They are mighty Saints of God who explained the role of Mary in the Christian faith, superbly.

For myself, I am often reminded of the last words of Mary the mother of Jesus recorded in the Bible. “Do whatever he [Jesus] tells you to do“. I then take this as the best and greatest instruction from Mary the mother of Jesus, who I love very much. I honor her by doing what Jesus tells me to do as recorded in scripture.

As do we. We also obey the words of our Lord with respect to Mary:
John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

John Chagas March 2, 2013 at 6:04 AM

I don’t believe it. I live in a Protestant nation. And I am surrounded by Protestants. And they are filled with hatred at the mention of Mary. They will throw parades for football players and war heroes, dead or alive. But mention anything to honor the Virgin Mary and they throw fits of rage.

They throw fits of rage because they are 100% convinced that the projection of the “Mary” in the RC Church does not line up with scripture. They are convinced that she is the queen of heaven mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah – which God rebuked the israelites for worshipping her. They are convinced the “Catholic Mary” is not the Mary of the Bible but satan’s counterfeit. They are convinced from scripture that God of the Bible “does not share his Glory” – refer to the TEN Commandments. They are convinced the virgin mary and the child in her hand is not Mary of the Bible, but satan’s counterfeit that has spread in all earthly religions including the Roman catholic religion – the Woman/child combination designed to “appeal” or “stoke” human emotions into feelings of pitifulness. They are convinced that the dogma of the “asumption of Mary” bodily into heaven has no circumstantial evidence whatsoever. That are convinced that salvation is found in the person of Jesus only and no one else – contrast this to the popes, mother theresa and ors taught that there are many ways to God through their own religious experiences not necessarily thru Jesus Christ. They are truly convinced by they cannot not place “hope” in Mary a created being but rather on God of the Bible directly. They are convinced praying to Mary is not part of the apostolic teachings. They are convinced there is a sinister ploy by satan using the RC Church to reject “exclusivity” of Jesus and assign to his human mother as co-mediatrix/co-mediator – this is clear from the messages of the marian apparitions. They are convinced that the Mary of the Bible did not “mysteriously” come out from the caves (as the apparitons have been reported) neither during or after Jesus ascension into heaven.

How can a group of fallible men elect a fallible man as their leader who then becomes infallible through the election?
By the grace of God. How did that same group write the Scriptures without error? By the grace of God.

Two questions:
(i) By the Grace of God. Is it “Amazing Grace” or “Sacramental Grace”?
(ii) Which is the Group who wrote the Scriptures without error you refer to?

I reject the Hindu Gods, but if some Catholics and Theologians have found something good in the Hindu religion. Perhaps meditation techniques and the like, they have every right to teach about them.

So.. you say it does not go against the TEN COMMANDMENTS? Is it not spiritual fornication? Would persons claiming to be part of a infallible Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit would convict those persons that it’s okay to fornicate with teachings of other religions? What is the work of the Holy Spirit as laid out in scripture? Go and seek “sensious” religious experiences with other religions? If you say “yes” to the last question .. then it is some seducing female spirit not the Holy Spirit of God.

You are mis-interpreting 1 Thessalonians 5:21. What’s the idea behind the concept of “religious experience”? Does scripture teach about “believing” or “experiencing”? To interpret 1 Thessalonians 5:21 you must take into account 2 Timothy 2:2-4.

John Chagas March 2, 2013 at 6:13 AM

Sorry … The Last verse should read 2 Timothy 4:2-4

John Chagas March 2, 2013 at 12:19 PM

I actually understand. When I first came to the Church and was only tasting of her milk, I read the “Glories of Mary” by St. Alphonsus Liguori. I was shocked and put the book down.

But after God poured his grace into me, I remembered the book and looked it up. And I was so impressed that I took on a part of St. Liguori’s name. In honor of St. Alphonsus Liguori and also of St. Louis de Montfort, I call myself “de Maria”. Because they also applied that name to themselves. St. Alphonsus Marie Liguori, St. Louis Marie de Montfort. They are mighty Saints of God who explained the role of Mary in the Christian faith, superbly.

“Glories of Mary” by St. Alphonsus Liguori is his personal interpretation that has no sound footing in scripture. Nevertheless St. Alphonsus Liguori is a Roman Catholic saint – and that he was declared a saint after his death. The usual canonization process the RC Church undertakes to canonize “dead” saints. I call them dead saints in hell. Don’t confuse apostolic saints who are saints in the body of Christ while they are still alive – see Ephesians 1:1, Phillipians 1:1. It should be noted that St. Alphonsus Liguori was a marian theologian, so quite ostensibly his “bias” will hinge more onto what training he received as part of the RC Church theology with has no basis in respect to 2 Timothy 4:3 and Colosssians 2:8.

Also note the following blasphemy from Alphonsus Liguori, a doctor of the Catholic church:
Not only is the most Blessed Virgin Queen of heaven and of all the saints, but she is also Queen of hell and all evil spirits: she overcame them valiantly by her virtue. Source: The Glories of Mary, by St. Alphonsus Liguori (1696-1787), Edited and abridged by Msgr. Charles Dollen, copyright 1990 by the Society of St. Paul, published by Alba House, New York, pages 49, 50. Alphonsus Liguori is surely burning in hell for his blashphemy.

But after God poured his grace into me
Grace or graces?

De Maria March 2, 2013 at 7:10 PM

John Chagas March 2, 2013 at 6:04 AM
They throw fits of rage because they are 100% convinced that the projection of the “Mary” in the RC Church does not line up with scripture.

They have been fooled by Satan because in Scripture, God Himself holds Mary up before us to admire, honor and praise:

Luke 1:26-28
King James Version (KJV)
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Let’s break this down:
ANGEL GABRIEL

1. an angel is a messenger of God. That is what the word, angel, means.
2. this angel, Gabriel, is one of the four angels that stands before the throne of God.

WAS SENT FROM GOD
1. God sent this angel to Mary.
2. Since this angel is a messenger of God’s, God sent Him to deliver a message.
3. Therefore, the angel was not speaking on his own, but was communicating God’s message to Mary.
4. If we skip down to verse 28, we see that this was a message of praise (i.e. blessed art thou).
5. Therefore God praised Mary through His Angel.

That is great praise indeed. Do you know of any man whose praise is worth more than God’s? In other words, what do you value more highly, the praise of man or the praise of God?

Therefore they have been fooled by Satan, not being able to discern the Spirit of God speaking through the Word of God, they call evil that which God says is good.

They are convinced that she is the queen of heaven mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah – which God rebuked the israelites for worshipping her.

Then they are fooled by Satan. Because the Mother of a King is a Queen. And Jesus is the King of Heaven and she is the Mother of Jesus. Thus she is the Queen of Heaven. And the Word of God in Scripture says she is the Queen of Heaven crowned in Rev 12:1

Revelation 12:1
King James Version (KJV)
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

They are convinced the “Catholic Mary” is not the Mary of the Bible but satan’s counterfeit.

Because they have been fooled by Satan in order to call evil that which is good and good that which is evil. They are thoroughly confused by the enemy.

They are convinced from scripture that God of the Bible “does not share his Glory” – refer to the TEN Commandments.

Agan they are confused by Satan because God of the Bible shares His glory with all whom He loves. But does not share His glory with any false idols who compete with Him for authority and power over His creatures.

Therefore Scripture says:
2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

They are convinced the virgin mary and the child in her hand is not Mary of the Bible, but satan’s counterfeit that has spread in all earthly religions including the Roman catholic religion – the Woman/child combination designed to “appeal” or “stoke” human emotions into feelings of pitifulness.

Then they remain confused by Satan because our God is love and the epitome of love. And He has given us a family to love. In fact, making us part of His family, including giving us a Mother who magnifies His love towards us. Scripture again says:
Luke 1:46
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

They are convinced that the dogma of the “asumption of Mary” bodily into heaven has no circumstantial evidence whatsoever.

Then they remain the Satan’s play things because Scripture expressly reveals the Dogma in Rev 12:1 where Mary is seen in the Heavens, being crowned with a crown of twelve stars.

That are convinced that salvation is found in the person of Jesus only and no one else – contrast this to the popes, mother theresa and ors taught that there are many ways to God through their own religious experiences not necessarily thru Jesus Christ.

Then they are convinced by Satan because the Word of God in Scripture says that it is the duty of all the faithful to save our fellow men:

Ezekiel 3:18-20
King James Version (KJV)
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Therefore they will die in their sins because they refuse to be God’s fellow laborers and teach others that is it wrong to participate in the salvation of their fellow man:
Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

They are truly convinced by they cannot not place “hope” in Mary a created being but rather on God of the Bible directly.

Then they are fully convinced of Satan, because the Son of God Himself, made Himself subject to Mary and yet they feel that they are too good for the Mother of God:
Luke 2:50-52
King James Version (KJV)
50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. 51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

They are convinced praying to Mary is not part of the apostolic teachings.

Because they are confused by the spirit of the enemy and can not discern that God, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, besought of her warmth, love, milk from her breast and everything that a mother can give. And He was not ashamed to do so. Therefore, if He prayed to Mary for all His human needs, what makes you or anyone else too good to imitate Him?

They are convinced there is a sinister ploy by satan using the RC Church to reject “exclusivity” of Jesus and assign to his human mother as co-mediatrix/co-mediator – this is clear from the messages of the marian apparitions.

Then they have been fooled by Satan. Because God assigned us all mediator roles. We are all mediators by grace, whereas Christ is the ONLY mediator by nature. Has anyone ever asked you to pray for them?If you did so, then you became a mediator with Christ. Because you put yourself squarely between God and that person. Do you ever pray for your children or for your loved ones? Then you had better cease. Because everytime you do so, you become a mediator between them and God.

Protestants are hypocrites like the Pharisees. They will neither enter heaven nor allow anyone to enter heaven if they can help it.

They are convinced that the Mary of the Bible did not “mysteriously” come out from the caves (as the apparitons have been reported) neither during or after Jesus ascension into heaven.

Then they have been fooled by Satan. Because we try all things and hold on to the good. Nor do we quench the Spirit. Because we know that God’s ways are mysterious and that He will send to us His messengers in every era. There are no obstacles for God.

But go on, continue living in fear. We live according to the Teachings of the Word of God in Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. God on letting Satan scare you into thinking that he has won the battle.

How can a group of fallible men elect a fallible man as their leader who then becomes infallible through the election?

By the grace of God.

Two questions:
(i) By the Grace of God. Is it “Amazing Grace” or “Sacramental Grace”?

In the case of the Bishops of the Catholic Church, they are one and the same, since they are fountains of Sacramental grace.

(ii) Which is the Group who wrote the Scriptures without error you refer to?

The Church.

So.. you say it does not go against the TEN COMMANDMENTS?

It does not go against the Ten Commandments to compare and contrast different religions. It does not go against the Ten Commandments to study the religious practices of other peoples.

Is it not spiritual fornication?

No.

Would persons claiming to be part of a infallible Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit would convict those persons that it’s okay to fornicate with teachings of other religions?

Where do you get “fornicate” from? I see nothing there instructing anyone to worship the Hindu gods. You are using a well known false argumentation technique called, “poison the well”. You paint this study as a type of fornication for no reason whatsoever, and thus imply that everyone should join you in condeming the study. But nothing there warrants condemnation. You are simply revealing your misanthropic tendencies.

We are not taught to hate other religions nor their adherents. We are taught to love all that is good in everyone. God is not a respecter of persons. Protestants are not immune to sin. Have you not read in Scripture?
Luke 12:46-48
King James Version (KJV)
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

What is the work of the Holy Spirit as laid out in scripture? Go and seek “sensious” religious experiences with other religions? If you say “yes” to the last question .. then it is some seducing female spirit not the Holy Spirit of God.

Your loaded questions and arguments have no effect on me. They just show that you are dishonest in your arguments.

First, the work of the Holy Spirit is love.
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Second, God didn’t tell us to judge anyone. But to teach His commands, by words if necessary:
Matthew 5:14-16
King James Version (KJV)
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

I don’t know what you have against females, but the hating spirit of Satan is what has seduced you. We don’t hate Brahmins. Nor any other sect. Not even the Protestants. But we don’t condemn them either. Their Judge is in heaven.

You are mis-interpreting 1 Thessalonians 5:21. What’s the idea behind the concept of “religious experience”? Does scripture teach about “believing” or “experiencing”? To interpret 1 Thessalonians 5:21 you must take into account 2 Timothy 2:2-4.

You are misunderstanding both. We pass down the faith, from one generation to another. We call it Sacred Tradition. Whereas, you reject it.

And we also test everything and hold on to the good. For even in the Church will there arise heretics in order that those who have a righteous understanding will be approved:
1 Corinthians 11:19
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

De Maria March 2, 2013 at 10:16 PM

John Chagas March 2, 2013 at 12:19 PM

“Glories of Mary” by St. Alphonsus Liguori is his personal interpretation that has no sound footing in scripture.

On the contrary, all his teachings are fully grounded in Scripture.

Nevertheless St. Alphonsus Liguori is a Roman Catholic saint – and that he was declared a saint after his death. The usual canonization process the RC Church undertakes to canonize “dead” saints.

Because we believe Christ. Don’t you?
John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I call them dead saints in hell.

You don’t know what you are talking about. St. Alphonsus Liguori is one of the holiest men that ever lived. God loves his saints and does not endure their calumny by thoughtless and thankless people like yourself:
Romans 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Don’t confuse apostolic saints who are saints in the body of Christ while they are still alive – see Ephesians 1:1, Phillipians 1:1.

So, you believe that members of the Body of Christ will be cut off when they die? Have you not read in Scripture:
Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

It should be noted that St. Alphonsus Liguori was a marian theologian, so quite ostensibly his “bias” will hinge more onto what training he received as part of the RC Church theology with has no basis in respect to 2 Timothy 4:3 and Colosssians 2:8.

It is the same bias which God the Father, and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, have towards this immaculate woman. It is love.

Also note the following blasphemy from Alphonsus Liguori, a doctor of the Catholic church:
Not only is the most Blessed Virgin Queen of heaven and of all the saints, but she is also Queen of hell and all evil spirits: she overcame them valiantly by her virtue.

Have you not read in Scripture:
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

This is what Mary did and it is she who conquered the devil:
Genesis 3:15
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Source: The Glories of Mary, by St. Alphonsus Liguori (1696-1787), Edited and abridged by Msgr. Charles Dollen, copyright 1990 by the Society of St. Paul, published by Alba House, New York, pages 49, 50. Alphonsus Liguori is surely burning in hell for his blashphemy.

If you don’t repent of your blasphemies against God’s elect, it is you who will find yourself burning in the flames.

But after God poured his grace into me
Grace or graces?

God knows. But I have never been the same since.

- See more at: http://www.catholic-convert.com/2013/02/24/popes-farewell-at-sundays-angelus/comment-page-1/#comment-316553

John Chagas March 3, 2013 at 7:22 AM

We are not taught to hate other religions nor their adherents. We are taught to love all that is good in everyone.
Yes I know its that “think positive” teachings of Robert Schuller and Normal Vincente Peale that a lot of catholic theologians have embrassed. I know this because I have first hand information that books by those guys are revered by nuns in a cloistered convent who have been brainwashed into reading such trash – that contains truth mixed up with errors.

Did you read what God said in Deutronomy 32:16-21? Titus 1:9, 2 Timothy 4:3. And 2 Corinthians 6:14 says not to yoke together with “unbelievers”. That is why the vatican calls every religion to rome to every year to fornicate with them (Rev 17:2, Rev18:3). Why?? because your RC Church definition of love is “humanism love” not the same as Biblical love as laid out in scripture.

And the Word of God in Scripture says she is the Queen of Heaven crowned in Rev 12:1
Then why did the alleged Queen of Heaven ran away into the wilderness in Rev 12:6? Can Queen of Heaven run away? Whereas down below your post you quoted Mary conquered the devil in Genesis 3:15. Blatant contradiction I see here. Mischieveous at best.

Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

A hear this verse use alot by catholic priests, because they themselves do not know how to interpret scripture. Again you take a verse out of context and make a doctrine of out it. Such excercise that becomes a pretext. This is an issue that has confused many people. On one hand, we are commanded by the Lord Jesus, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). On the other hand, the Bible also exhorts us to beware of evildoers and false prophets and to avoid those who practice all kinds of evil. How are we to discern who these people are if we do not make some kind of judgment about them?

However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture verses that state, “Do not judge.” There is a righteous kind of judgment we are supposed to exercise—with careful discernment (John 7:24). When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically. Matthew 7:2-5 declares, “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others.

In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for his sin when you yourself are sinning even worse. That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do. If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is his Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with his sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope—and with the ultimate goal—of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20) and restoration to the fellowship. We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). We are to proclaim what God’s Word says about sin. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, “Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction.” We are to “judge” sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences—the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6).

Don’t confuse apostolic saints who are saints in the body of Christ while they are still alive – see Ephesians 1:1, Phillipians 1:1 So, you believe that members of the Body of Christ will be cut off when they die?
Apologies… I meant that they were saints while they were alive and not canonized as after their deaths as is a practice in the RC Church. The RC practice of canonization is deep rooted in occultism.

But after God poured his grace into me
Grace or graces?
God knows. But I have never been the same since.

God knows? Then you are not sure whether its Gods grace? Maybe satan;s grace?? So you don’t have a clue what your RC Church teaches, eh? That is what I called “blind obedience”. As I have said before, you are carnal minded and continue wallking in the flesh. You are the natural man that is spiritually discerned. Be aware that the scripture (New Testament) teaches a “singular” grace not graces as taught by the RC Church. Thus the RC Church is not the New Testament Church of scripture.

De Maria March 3, 2013 at 1:50 PM

John Chagas March 3, 2013 at 7:22 AM

I said,
We are not taught to hate other religions nor their adherents. We are taught to love all that is good in everyone.

To which you responded,
Yes I know its that “think positive” teachings …. that contains truth mixed up with errors.

Are you saying, in so many words, that your religion teaches you to hate other religions and their adherents?

Did you read what God said in Deutronomy 32:16-21?

Yes. That is about worshipping other gods. The book which you mentioned does not recommend worshipping other gods. It is a study in comparative religion.

Titus 1:9,

Nor is that book about abandoning the faith for another.

2 Timothy 4:3.

This verse is a prophecy of the coming of the Protestants. But has nothing to do with a study in comparative theology.
And 2 Corinthians 6:14 says not to yoke together with “unbelievers”.

A study in comparative religion does not make one yoked to an unbeliever.

That is why the vatican calls every religion to rome to every year to fornicate with them (Rev 17:2, Rev18:3).

By your words you reveal who has been fornicating with Satan. For you sound just like him. Your hate filled speech reveals that you are his son:
1 John 2:11
But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

You are walking in darkness and the darkness has overtaken you.

Why?? because your RC Church definition of love is “humanism love” not the same as Biblical love as laid out in scripture.

Biblical love is the love of God for all mankind. Have you not read in Scripture?
Jonah 4:
6 And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd. 7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered. 8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live. 9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death. 10 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night: 11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

The same God who cares for the welfare of the cattle in Nineveh is the same God who cares for all those people in the other religions which you hate. God is not just your God, He is the God of all:
Matthew 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

It is you who do not understand the love of God. In Scripture or otherwise.

Then why did the alleged Queen of Heaven ran away into the wilderness in Rev 12:6?

That is a metaphorical reference to their escape into Egypt, which is in the desert, last time I looked:
Matthew 2:13
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Can Queen of Heaven run away?

You are so blinded by the humanistic teachings of the Protestants that you don’t understand the Spiritual word of Scripture. Read the book of Revelations and understand that St. John is not speaking literally. He is making metaphorical and mystical references. The Queen of Heaven is the mother of Jesus Christ, the Messiah and she certainly did flee into the desert in obedience to the Word of God sent through St. Joseph.

Whereas down below your post you quoted Mary conquered the devil in Genesis 3:15. Blatant contradiction I see here. Mischieveous at best.

You would believe that because that is what the Protestants teach. But you are wrong. Mary conquered Satan and never sinned. She also crushed the head of Satan when she brought forth the Son of God from her womb.

Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
A hear this verse use alot by catholic priests, because they themselves do not know how to interpret scripture.

It is you who do not. Catholic Priests interpret Scripture according to the Wisdom of God which guides them. Whereas, you have shown that you are led by another spirit.

Again you take a verse out of context and make a doctrine of out it.

On the contrary, I used the verse very much in context.

Such excercise that becomes a pretext. This is an issue that has confused many people. On one hand, we are commanded by the Lord Jesus, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). On the other hand, the Bible also exhorts us to beware of evildoers and false prophets and to avoid those who practice all kinds of evil. How are we to discern who these people are if we do not make some kind of judgment about them?

By their fruits. You are supposed to judge the fruits of the persons efforts and behaviour. Matt 7:16

However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture verses that state, “Do not judge.” There is a righteous kind of judgment we are supposed to exercise—with careful discernment (John 7:24). When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically.

Correct.

Matthew 7:2-5 declares, “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Still true and exactly as I applied it to you. You have been condemning one of the holiest people that ever lived, St. Alphonsus Liguori and many of the Saints canonized by the Catholic Church. If not all of them. Therefore, the same measure by which you condemn these holy people will be measured out to you.

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others.

Absolutely! The question could very well be applied to you after reading all the dribble you have been posting against the Church and her Saints.

In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for his sin when you yourself are sinning even worse.

Very good. You are still shooting yourself in the foot. Please continue.

That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do. If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is his Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with his sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope—and with the ultimate goal—of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20) and restoration to the fellowship.

So far so good. But you have been calumniating the Saints of God. So?

We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).

Where is the love shining through in any of your writings so far? Is there any love in any of them?

We are to proclaim what God’s Word says about sin. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, “Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction.” We are to “judge” sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences—the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6).

So far, you have expounded Catholic Teaching. And all the while shooting yourself in the foot because you violated all that which you just explained and preached.

I meant that they were saints while they were alive and not canonized as after their deaths as is a practice in the RC Church.

Are they no longer saints? Or are you claiming that there are no more saints? Are you restricting sainthood to those mentioned in Scripture?

The RC practice of canonization is deep rooted in occultism.

You make wild, unsupported accusations and expect us to take you seriously? The canonization of the Saints is a practice done in obedience of the Scriptures:
Hebrews 13:7
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

After they have passed, we remember them and continue to present them to our children as examples of faithful Christians. We also remember that we walk amongst them upon Mt. Sion, saints who have been made perfect in love of God:
Hebrews 12:22-23
King James Version (KJV)
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

God knows?

Yes.

Then you are not sure whether its Gods grace? Maybe satan;s grace??

There you go showing that your father is Satan. You asked me, “grace or graces”. I responded, “God knows.” And you twist that to claim that I might be saying it is satan’s grace?

Really?

So you don’t have a clue what your RC Church teaches, eh?

I know what the Catholic Church teaches far better than you.

That is what I called “blind obedience”.

Thank you.

This is what Jesus Christ says about the blind obedience type of faith:
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

2 Corinthians 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

As I have said before, you are carnal minded and continue wallking in the flesh.

I’ll let the readers decide between you and I, whom they believe is walking in the flesh. I’m not the one advocating hatred. Nor am I the one calumniating the Saints of God. Nor am I the one twisting people’s words to mean that which they obviously did not.

You are the natural man that is spiritually discerned. Be aware that the scripture (New Testament) teaches a “singular” grace not graces as taught by the RC Church.

You know neither Scripture nor the Power of God. Grace is a gift:
Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

Therefore, there are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit.

Thus the RC Church is not the New Testament Church of scripture.

It is, in fact. There can be no other.

First, Jesus Christ appointed a Pastor as head of the entire Church:
John 21:17
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

I see only a few Churches with such a Pastor. Further, Jesus Christ said that the Pastor over His Church would be infallible:

Matthew 16:17-19 (King James Version)
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The list of Churches accept this teaching gets smaller. Certainly, all Protestant denominations can now be eliminated.

Jesus Christ not only said that the Pastor was infallible but Scripture describes the Church as infallible:
Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

The list remains the same, but now I can certainly eliminate all Protestant denominations.

Back to Matt 16:18, Scripture says that Jesus Christ established one Church. History shows that all the Churches sprang from the Church which is frequently described as the Mother Church. The Catholic Church.

By simple logic of elimination, that leaves only the Catholic Church.

Sincerely,

De Maria

De Maria March 3, 2013 at 1:58 PM

John Chagas March 3, 2013 at 7:22 AM

You also said,
That is why the vatican calls every religion to rome to every year to fornicate with them (Rev 17:2, Rev18:3).

That’s a low blow which anti-Catholics are always slinging at the Catholic Church. They pull a verse from the Sacred Script and then pour into it all kinds of hateful innuendo. But you will also stand before the judgement seat of Christ. And you will be judged for every thoughtless word out of your mouth.

Protestants claim that the woman, Babylon, in Revelations Chapters 17 and 18 is a reference to the Catholic Church. A study of the Scriptures does not bear this out.

Babylon, represents Jerusalem and Israel. Let us correlate some Scriptures (note, all Scripture references are from the King James version):
Babylon described as a whore:
Revelation 17 1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Israel is described as a whore:
Hosea 9 1Rejoice not, O Israel, for joy, as other people: for thou hast gone a whoring from thy God, thou hast loved a reward upon every cornfloor.

Jerusalem described as a harlot (which is another word for whore):
Isaiah 1 21How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

Ezekiel 16 1Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, ….15But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

Babylon is clothed in finery:
Rev 17 4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Jerusalem clothed in finery:
Ez 16 10I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers’ skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. 11I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. 12And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. 13Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. 14And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD. 15But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

Babylon kills the prophets and saints:
Rev 17 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Jerusalem kills the prophets and saints:
Matthew 23 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Babylon is described as “that great city”:
Rev 17: 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Rev 18: 10Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

The “great city” is the city in which Jesus was crucified:
Rev 11: 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. . The Kings of the earth gathered in Jerusalem to crucify Christ.

Rev 17: 2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication

Acts 4: 26The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Babylon and Jerusalem are built on seven mountains:
Revelation 17: 9And here is the understanding that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman sitteth, and they are seven kings:

Jerusalem is built on seven mountains: Mt. Goath, Mt. Gareb, Mt. Acra, Mt. Bezetha, Mt. Zion, Mt. Ophel, and Mt. Moriah.

Babylon is destroyed by fire:
Rev 18: 8Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire

Jerusalem is destroyed by fire:
Ez 23: 25And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.

God calls His people out of that city:
Rev 18: 4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Paul calls people out of Jerusalem:
Heb 13: 12Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 13Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. 14For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

The harlot, Jerusalem is redeemed:
Isaiah 2 1The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Revelation 21: 10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

All of that is directly from Scripture.

Nowhere does Scripture refer to the Church as Babylon or a harlot. But the Church is referred to as the Bride of Christ. And the Church in Scripture is the Catholic Church.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Steve Ray March 3, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I love it when guys like Chagas post comments on my blog. They display for all to see amazing foolishness, stupidity and bigotry. He makes such a fool of himself that everybody else who reads them will smile and be glad to be Catholic. Keep posting Chagan, we love you for your comedic value if nothing else.

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