Protestant/Other Christians

Rayla sent me an email and gave me permission to share it. Calvary Chapel (my wife Janet was associated with them in her younger days) boasts that 80% of their members are “ex-Catholics.” Thanks for sharing Rayla!

I came across your blog and am very impressed. After being raised Baptist, them attending Calvary Chapels for 20 years, I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, for many of the same reasons you converted to the Roman Catholic Church. 

I got so sick of the anti-Catholic rants (which to my shame, I used to believe), the ridicule of Catholic theology, especially  pertaining to the Holy Mother of God, the constant focus on the end of the world and the ridiculous Rapture theory, and the awful rock music.

But most of all I got tired of the smugness and surety that they are God’s cutting-edge church on earth. Not to mention most of them are so ignorant of church history and actually think that the early church believed and worshipped the way Evangelical Protestants do now. 

I was bitter for a while, angry, feeling I’d been duped. But I’ve come to regard members of Calvary Chapel (especially the young ones) and those in similar denominations as being like natives in the deep jungles. They just don’t know. They know nothing about church history before Martin Luther. 

Anyway, I do not engage with them, unless challenged, and even then I am careful. 

When I realy realized the problems with Protestantism, (it is said that to study Church history is to not remain Protestant), I was amazed that I didn’t see them before. Twenty thousand + denominations and they don’t agree, something clearly the Bible is against, that and the stripping away of the sacraments and not honoring the Holy Mother…What a disaster. Now I can see it so clearly. Thank God I’m out!

May God rich bless you and your family.

See similar articles I’ve posted about mega-churches:

Mega-church Mania: One Mom’s Observations (she’s a good writer) and Observations from the Early Church 

As A Baptist I Never Asked: “What Did the First Christians Do on Sunday Morning?” 

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Mr. Ray,

My eldest daughter invited me to my grandson’s ‘dedication’ at her new place of worship.  Worship? Sorry. Her new place of…..well, the giant Olympic-sized structure that, after being directed in by police/traffic officers, upon entering, reminded me of a mall.  Oh and by the way, I didn’t witness any worship. My 1st thoughts were…”Wow! A frappucino Mass! Where do I get my 3D glasses?” 

Joined daughter, son in law and grandson in the biggest theater I’ve ever been in.  The music was ghastly and horribly loud. I found out later, I could have gotten ear plugs from one of the kajillion ushers. Seriously? I personally choose 11:00 Mass at St. Johns because of the music. So now this place is on strike # 6 or 7.  I’m still giving it a chance as I love my child and grandchild more than life. 

Music’s done. Smoke machine turned off.  Some hip, young guy puts down his guitar and welcomes us to the (lack of) worship service.  A special welcome to us uninformed-not-belonging-to-the-mega-church-there-because-of-the-dedication, schmucks. 

He also welcomed the 4 or so other locations as they are all gathered at their ‘malls’ watching on the big screen. Are you kidding me?!?! He then tells us that this dedication “is not a baptism as they don’t baptize infants. “The Bible is clear that we are saved by God’s grace, not by dedication, baptism, or our own works.”  And that “every baptism recorded in the Bible occurred when someone was old enough to make a faith decision.” 

I got up and walked out. Mostly because my husband wouldn’t let me stand up and yell “LIAR!” “Go home. Open your bible, read it and get back to us.” As today is Sunday and I went to Mass at my church with my live priest and beautiful music and the presence of our Lord and true praise and worship and forgiveness…..I’ll admit to you that I wanted to say worse. In my mind I did.

This daughter was a Catholic.  This daughter knows better.  I felt as though this daughter ripped my heart out and stomped on it.  She claims she ‘switched’ because her husband, while attending Mass with her, was offended and did not feel comfortable because she told him he could not receive communion as he didn’t understand the true meaning. They went church-hopping and ended up at Eagle Brook. Super mega franchise church. Did I say church? My apologies.

Please help me.  I’ve heard you speak at Little Canda, MN.  Which of your books would help me and God help her, my daughter. [Steve here: Crossing the Tiber would be the book. It is my conversion story and has effected thousands to come back to the Church - blessed be God] I say books as she is an avid reader.  Books are best in this case. 

I feel just sick that my grandson is this little nobody in this horrible excuse for a place of worship…or lack thereof.  I so want him to be a part of our beautiful, Catholic family. 

I must say, since I’ve been so very negative, that a good thing did come from this visit……daughters 2 and 3 (who happen to be teenagers, mind you) both stated from the back seat on the way home, “I can’t wait to go to real church tomorrow.” That was huge for daughter #2…..teenage angst and all that. I appreciate any help you can give me.

 

Check out this video from a person who posted it as “This is my church.” This was shared and viewed at all of their campuses (a word they use for all of their satellite “churches”, rather, theaters.

STEVE RAY HERE: The current trend of mega-churches is pretty much an American phenomenon. It is a response to Americans’ desire for entertainment, theatrics, “big exciting stuff” and religion-lite. They don’t want a lot of commitment, history, or quiet. Mega churches replicate the media world. In the first century they would have been similar to the colosseum, the entertainment genre of the day.

I am not saying there is not good being done in the mega churches, there is. But the Church that Jesus Christ founded 2,000 years ago is not about entertainment but about sacrifice, the Eucharist and the liturgy given by the Apostles which has been practiced since the first century. This good mom has described it all very well.

Around 150 AD Justin Martyr described the apostolic Church of the second century following the pattern laid down by the apostles. There was only one church, the Catholic Church. Read this and tell me where you find it today :-)

Early Christians often celebrated the Mass in the catacombs

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.

Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. 

First century bishop St. Ignatius, disciple of the apostles wrote:

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it.

Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

And, 

But consider those who are of a different opinion with respect to the grace of Christ which has come unto us, how opposed they are to the will of God. … They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes.

So dear mega church friends, where is your bishop? Where is your Eucharist? The heretics of the first century denied the Real Presence of Christ in the Blessed Eucharist. Where is the liturgy of the apostles on your stages? Even imagining Peter or Paul officiating at a Rock Concert church service is unthinkable. 

Thank God for the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church!

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St. Paul did NOT Write for Us!

by Steve Ray on May 18, 2014

When arguments about salvation arise between Catholics and Protestants, the Bibles are usually opened to Galatians and Romans. Are we saved by faith alone or are works involved? Protestants quickly accuse Catholics of teaching a salvation based on works and Catholics quickly point out that Protestants have swung the pendulum too far in the other direction by refusing to accept human cooperation and obedience as necessary to the process.

Raphael - st paulAs final proof of their point, Protestants will quote Romans 3:28: “For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.” That should end the argument right? Salvation is not by good works or obedience, but by faith alone? So, the combatants rush to the books of Galatians and Romans to solve this Catholic-Protestant disagreement. But there is a huge problem here. Paul did not write these letters to us and he knew nothing of the Catholic-Protestant debate. The huge problem we have is the problem of anachronism.

Do you know what the word “anachronism” means? According to the Collins English Dictionary it comes from a Greek word for “mistake in chronology” or “error in time reference”. Anachronistic is defined as “1. the representation of an event, person, or thing in a historical context in which it could not have occurred or existed; 2. a person or thing that belongs or seems to belong to another time.”

The problem is that when Paul wrote these two letters he was not writing them to us today. He was writing to the Gentiles and Jews of the first century. He didn’t know about the Catholic–Protestant debate. He was not writing to Germans like Martin Luther or Americans like us.

circumcisionPaul was writing to people two thousand years ago living in places like Iconium, Pamphylia, Lystra, Galatia and Rome. They were not having a raging Protestant–Catholic debate. These good folks were having a Jewish–Gentile debate which was a whole world away. To read our current situation back into Asia Minor, Palestine, and Europe of the first century is a classic case of anachronism.

Paul preached that uncircumcised gentiles could be saved without circumcision and a slavish obedience to the 613 laws of Moses–along with all the ceremonial rituals. Some Jewish believers, on the other hand said, “Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and if you want to become a Christian you must become a Jew first.”

They couldn’t have said it any clearer than in Acts 15:1: “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” They want to impose the “works of the Law” referred to above in Romans 3:28 upon the gentiles. It had nothing whatever to do with Catholics and good works. It has to with Gentiles coming into the Body of Christ by faith and obedience, not by becoming circumcised Jews.

rembrandt_abrahamAbraham, the father of the Jews, was the prime example or case in point. Was he saved by circumcision and by obeying all the laws of Moses? Heavens no! He was saved while an uncircumcised pagan gentile living in Ur of the Chaldees, a thousand miles to east of Israel. Circumcision was only given as a sign of the covenant, not the means of salvation. And he did not obey the 613 laws of Moses since they would not even exist for another six hundred years or so. Abraham was saved by the grace of God and his belief and obedience and not by “the works of the Law” (See Romans 4 and James 2).

This is exactly what Catholics teach! We are not anachronistic. We understand Galatians and Romans within their proper chronology. Paul wrote to that particular age and culture with its particular problems. We live in a different age and culture with different particular problems.

But, even though Paul didn’t specifically write his letters to us, if we study the cultural climate in which they were written, and stay faithful to the tradition in which they were passed on to us, the Holy Spirit (the primary author of the letters) will help us apply the principles and truth of those letters to our current situation.

By the way, can you imagine how difficult evangelism would have been in the first century if every male who believed in Christ had to be circumcised? They would have asked Paul “You want us to cut off what?”

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The Bible out of Context

May 3, 2014

When reading the Bible devoid of its historical and textual context, there is no context except the context which any person might supply for it. or put otherwise, A text without a context is a pretext. I always get frustrated when self-proclaimed Bible students or teachers start pontificating about the meaning of the Bible and [...]

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Why Protestants Reject 7 Books of the Bible – the Short Answer

April 30, 2014

Gary Michuta is an expert on the canon of Scripture, especially in regards to the Deutero-canonical books, what the Protestants call the Apocrypha. You can read his book Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger to see what I mean. Recently a friend asked Gary for the short answer as to why the Protestants removed seven books from [...]

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Pentecostal Kenneth Copeland and Pope Francis (quite an amazing encounter)

March 14, 2014

Kenneth Copeland is a Pentecostal preacher who has championed the “name it, claim it” tradition in Protestantism. He has an “empire” which he has built that spreads across the world with tens of thousands of followers, or more. I remember as a teenager listening to him on TV and radio with my parents. Many of [...]

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Can Evangelicals and Catholics be Friends?

March 2, 2014

Catholics Can Learn a Good Deal From Them But Big Differences Remain By Father Dwight Longenecker ROME, February 28, 2014 (Zenit.org) – Last week Evangelical Anglican Bishop Tony Palmer spoke to a gathering of Pentecostal Christian leaders in America and showed them a personal video greeting from Pope Francis. Bishop Palmer became friends with Pope [...]

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The Protestant and his Three Huts

February 26, 2014

I posted this a long time ago, but thought it would be fun to represent it. A Protestant was stranded all alone on an island. He begins sending smoke signals, hoping that somebody will find him. Ten years pass, and a boat is sailing by. The captain notices the smoke signals, and decides to pull [...]

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Eternal Security: Is Baptist Pastor Charles Stanley Right?

February 11, 2014

ETERNAL SECURITY (Once Saved-Always Saved): Analyzing a Sermon by Baptist Pastor, Charles Stanley By Steve Ray Hello Protestant Friend: Even though I have watched his show off and on over the months, I had no intention of watching Charles Stanley on television last night. It was just that I was tired after getting home and [...]

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Cartoon on Protestantism and the Bible

February 7, 2014

When I look back on my experience I find this cartoon has a ring of truth. There were many verses of the Bible that I either didn’t realize existed (though that may seem strange) or that we just ignored. Other verses I just read with my “Baptist glasses” on and twisted them to fit my [...]

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Response to an Ex-Catholic, now Baptist

January 26, 2014

I received an e-mail from a Southern Baptist and decided to take a few minutes to respond. Thought others might be edified by it so I have posted it here without using his name. His e-mail is contained in regular text and my response is in CAPITAL LETTERS. **************************************************** HELLO FRIEND: I WILL ANSWER BRIEFLY [...]

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St. Ignatius Steps on Luther; Mary Throws Luther out of Heaven

December 26, 2013

Two great Jesuit churches stand near each other in Rome. One is the Church of St. Ignatius and the other the Church of Gesu (Jesus). Both are imposing and majestic and reflect the glory of the Jesuits in their heyday.  The one to the left is called the Church of St. Ignatius Loyola. In Italian [...]

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Who Speaks for God on Morals? Many Choose their Church Like they Choose a Restaurant

December 11, 2013

We have a “church” near our house that is making it comfortable for anyone to join no matter who they are, what they believe or what they practice. They say it is our job to accept and love, to be nice, not to judge. Celebrate Diversity is a slogan of acceptance, multiculturalism, non-judgmental inclusion. Some [...]

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Nathaniel has Converted 5 Catholics out of the Church

August 8, 2013

Nathaniel wrote:  Thanks for the 6-tips which i see is taken from your baptist upbringing. I will use it to win Catholics to Christ and out from the RC Church. It will add to the list of 5 Catholics I’ve already sucessfully evangelized them out of the RC Church. Keep the tips coming :) I [...]

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Cartoon: “This is where our movement came in and finally got the Bible right!”

July 18, 2013
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How Many Christians to Change a Lightbulb?

May 10, 2013

As we all smile at ourselves: CHARISMATICS: Only 1 – Hands are already in the air. PENTECOSTALS: 10 – One to change the bulb, and nine to pray against the spirit of darkness. PRESBYTERIANS: None – Lights will go on and off at predestined times. ROMAN CATHOLICS: None, they only use candles. BAPTISTS: At least [...]

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