Protestant/Other Christians

“Ancient Baptists” and Other Myths

by Steve Ray on July 28, 2016

“Ancient Baptists” and Other Myths
Fr. Hugh Barbour, O.Praem.

Nicea, August 24, A.D. 325, 7:41 p.m. “That was powerful preaching, Brother Athanasius. Powerful! Amen! I want to invite any of you folks in the back to approach the altar here and receive the Lord into your hearts. Just come on up. We’ve got brothers and sisters up here who can lead you through the Sinner’s Prayer. Amen! And as this Council of Nicea comes to an end, I want to remind Brother Eusebius to bring the grape juice for tomorrow’s closing communion service . . .”

52athanasius23Ah yes, the Baptists at the Council of Nicea. Sound rather silly? It certainly does. And yet, there are those who claim the Church of Nicea was more Protestant in belief and practice than Catholic. I recently read an article in The Christian Research Journal, written by a Reformed Baptist apologist, who argued this very point. No, I’m not making this up. The article, “What Really Happened at Nicea?” actually claimed the Fathers of the Council were essentially Evangelical Protestants.

As a trained patristics scholar, I always feel a great deal of sadness and frustration when I encounter shoddy historical “scholarship,” whether it be in the pages of The Watchtower, a digest of Mormon “archaeology,” or a popular and usually well-produced Evangelical Protestant apologetics journal. But this article was so error-laden, so amateurishly “researched,” and so filled with historical and theological fallacies, that I simply couldn’t let it stand without response.

nicaea-sistineAll the classical Protestant confessions of faith expressing the beliefs of the various Reformation branches include the doctrinal proclamations of the ancient Catholic Council of Nicea, whereby Christ is professed to be “of one essence” with the Father. The original Lutheran Augsburg Confession of 1531, for example, and the later Formula of Concord of 1576-1584, each begin with the mention of the doctrine of the Nicene Council.

Calvin’s French Confession of Faith of 1559 states, “And we confess that which has been established by the ancient councils, and we detest all sects and heresies which were rejected by the holy doctors, such as St. Hilary, St. Athanasius, St. Ambrose and St. Cyril.” The Scotch Confession of 1560 deals with general councils in its 20th chapter. The Thirty-nine Articles of the Church of England, both the original of 1562-1571 and the American version of 1801, explicitly accept the Nicene Creed in article 7.

Even when the particular Protestant confessional formula does not mention the Nicene Council or its creed, its doctrine is nonetheless always asserted, as, for example, in the Calvinist Scotch Confession just mentioned, or in the Presbyterian Westminster Confession of 1647.

nicea-2At first glance, this all seems rather odd to the Catholic reader. After all, every branch of Protestantism professes the absolute and sole sufficiency of Sacred Scripture for establishing the fundamental points of doctrine. Why, then, do these various Protestant confessions bother to bring up the early councils (or any councils) when establishing their core teachings? Well, we shouldn’t be too quick to accuse them of inconsistency just yet, for all of these confessions make it abundantly clear that the councils of the Church have no authority of their own, but only insofar as they teach things which have a clear warrant in the written Word of God. ………

Read more: http://www.catholicfidelity.com/apologetics-topics/other-religions/protestanism/baptists-at-nicea-by-fr-hugh-barbour-o-praem/

For Steve Ray’s Article: The Trail of Blood, Baptist Successionism, visit http://www.catholicconvert.com/?s=trail+of+blood

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ETERNAL SECURITY
(Once Saved-Always Saved):

Analyzing a Sermon by Baptist Pastor,
Charles Stanley

By Steve Ray

Hello Protestant Friend:

Even though I have watched his show off and on over the months, I had no intention of watching Charles Stanley on television last night. It was just that I was tired after getting home and was getting some iced tea to drink and flipped on the TV and—there he was as big as life. His Bible was dramatically floating up and down with pages flapping as he paced in front of the audience.

I understand – I learned the same speaking style as a Bible teacher. It is something pastors learn in Bible school. Delivery is crucial. His style or manner is similar to Kenneth Copeland’s but not quite as dramatic and certainly without Copeland’s arrogance. He caught my interest tonight because his topic was judgment for the sinner and Eternal Security for the believer………

For the rest of the story, click here.
For other stories and articles, click here.

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Rayla sent me an email and gave me permission to share it. Calvary Chapel (my wife Janet was associated with them in her younger days) boasts that 80% of their members are “ex-Catholics.” Thanks for sharing Rayla!

I came across your blog and am very impressed. After being raised Baptist, them attending Calvary Chapels for 20 years, I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, for many of the same reasons you converted to the Roman Catholic Church. 

I got so sick of the anti-Catholic rants (which to my shame, I used to believe), the ridicule of Catholic theology, especially  pertaining to the Holy Mother of God, the constant focus on the end of the world and the ridiculous Rapture theory, and the awful rock music.

But most of all I got tired of the smugness and surety that they are God’s cutting-edge church on earth. Not to mention most of them are so ignorant of church history and actually think that the early church believed and worshipped the way Evangelical Protestants do now. 

I was bitter for a while, angry, feeling I’d been duped. But I’ve come to regard members of Calvary Chapel (especially the young ones) and those in similar denominations as being like natives in the deep jungles. They just don’t know. They know nothing about church history before Martin Luther. 

Anyway, I do not engage with them, unless challenged, and even then I am careful. 

When I realy realized the problems with Protestantism, (it is said that to study Church history is to not remain Protestant), I was amazed that I didn’t see them before. Twenty thousand + denominations and they don’t agree, something clearly the Bible is against, that and the stripping away of the sacraments and not honoring the Holy Mother…What a disaster. Now I can see it so clearly. Thank God I’m out!

May God rich bless you and your family.

See similar articles I’ve posted about mega-churches:

Mega-church Mania: One Mom’s Observations (she’s a good writer) and Observations from the Early Church 

As A Baptist I Never Asked: “What Did the First Christians Do on Sunday Morning?” 

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Quick Summary of Common Declaration Signed by Pope and Russian Patriarch

February 13, 2016

30 Paragraphs that cover a variety of themes. Written on February 11, 2010 by Kathllen Naab Patriarch Kirill, the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, and Pope Francis joyously signed a common declaration today in Havana, following a 2.5 hour meeting between the two. The 30-paragraph statement covers a variety of themes.   Here is a […]

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Are Evangelical Churches Growing?

January 23, 2016

Lenny Alt (lennyalt1@att.net) shared the following: MICHAEL CONTI SAYS in the FACEBOOK group “Roman Catholicism is Apostate”:  “I remember the first time after I got out of prison and went to a Calvary Chapel in North-East Philly, the Pastor was telling us that over 50% of the congregation were ex-Catholics…and this Calvary Chapel had over 12,000 […]

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Response to an Ex-Catholic, now Baptist

January 3, 2016

A while ago I received an e-mail from a Southern Baptist and decided to take a few minutes to respond. Thought others might be edified by it so I have posted it here without using his name. His e-mail is contained in regular text and my response is in CAPITAL LETTERS. **************************************************** HELLO FRIEND: I […]

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Nevada Catholic churches targeted in bizarre string of protests

December 11, 2015

Las Vegas, Nev., Dec 10, 2015 / 03:19 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Las Vegas Catholics are disturbed after self-described Muslim-turned-Christian protestors disrupted Masses at several churches in the metropolitan area within the past few weeks. In at least three incidents, the group “Koosha Las Vegas” have walked in to churches in the middle of Mass, shouting […]

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The Bible out of Context: “Saved by Faith Alone”?

November 19, 2015

When reading the Bible devoid of its historical and textual context, there is no context except the context which any person might supply for it. or put otherwise, A text without a context is a pretext. I always get frustrated when self-proclaimed Bible students or teachers start pontificating about the meaning of the Bible and […]

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Baptists at the Council of Nicea?

November 12, 2015

Nicea, August 24, A.D. 325, 7:41 p.m.    “That was powerful preaching, Brother Athanasius. Powerful! Amen! I want to invite any of you folks in the back to approach the altar here and receive the Lord into your hearts. Just come on up. We’ve got brothers and sisters up here who can lead you through […]

Read the full article →

Sola Scriptura and the Canon of Scripture

November 3, 2015

Sola Scriptura and the Canon When non-Catholics are asked to provide biblical support or their belief that the Bible Alone is the sole rule of faith for the believer, they usually cite 2 Timothy 3:16-17 which states that “all scripture is God-breathed and is useful”. However, they somehow miss the fact that the two verses […]

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Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople rebukes Moscow, underlines importance of ties with Rome

September 5, 2015

  Catholic World News – September 04, 2015Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople underlined the importance of ecumenical ties with Rome, and criticized the resistance of the Russian Orthodox Church, in an August 29 address.  The Ecumenical Patriarch—recognized as the “first among equals” of the world’s Orthodox leaders—stressed the primary importance of ecumenical affairs, and reiterated […]

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Salvation by Faith Alone?

July 30, 2015

Since the days of Martin Luther it has been popular to reduce salvation to a sound bite. Salvation is not by works but by “faith alone.” However, the Bible seems to have another idea. In my book CROSSING THE TIBER I mention a few passages from Scripture to give a more biblical perspective. Here is […]

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Differences Between Catholic and Protestant Approaches to the Bible

July 23, 2015

“Bible Christians” (a misnomer, since Catholics are the real and original Bible Christians), based on their recently devised “Reformation” principle of sola Scriptura, study the Bible with the following premises: 1. There is no binding authority but the Bible alone; 2. There is no official binding interpretation or interpreter; each person ultimately is their own […]

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The Protestant and his Three Huts

June 1, 2015

The Protestant’s Three Huts A Protestant was stranded all alone on an island. He begins sending smoke signals, hoping that somebody will find him. Ten years pass, and a boat is sailing by. The captain notices the smoke signals, and decides to pull into the island. When he docks, he sees three huts. The Protestant […]

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Mega-church Mania: One Mom’s Observations (she’s a good writer) and Observations from the Early Church

May 29, 2015

Mr. Ray, My eldest daughter invited me to my grandson’s ‘dedication’ at her new place of worship.  Worship? Sorry. Her new place of…..well, the giant Olympic-sized structure that, after being directed in by police/traffic officers, upon entering, reminded me of a mall.  Oh and by the way, I didn’t witness any worship. My 1st thoughts were…”Wow! […]

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Cartoon on Protestantism and the Bible

May 21, 2015

When I look back on my experience I find this cartoon has a ring of truth. There were many verses of the Bible that I either didn’t realize existed (though that may seem strange) or that we just ignored. We virtually cut them out of the Bible in the sense that we ignored or reasoned […]

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